![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
davemerrillI've been wisely sort of ignoring the whole Tokyo Youth Ordinance Bill thing for several reasons; it's a city-of-Tokyo thing that I can't influence in any fashion, it's not really going to affect anything I watch or read, and it's brought out a lot of the over-reacting, viewing-with-alarm, doom-saying, fear-mongering, and general stupid fan behavior that wastes everybody's time and accomplishes nothing.
But - and this has happened twice that I've seen so far - when somebody tries to equate this bill with the American Comics Code, and then makes the case that the Comics Code destroyed American comics for decades until magically Frank Miller invented "The Dark Knight" and made comics OK for adults again (or whatever artistic benchmark you care to use for the adultification of American comic books), well I have to speak up.
The Comics Code of the 1950s didn't have nearly as much to do with the implosion
of the American comics industry as did an economic downturn that eliminated
several distributors in 1957-1958. Before AND after the Comics Code, the
American comic book industry featured crime, war, horror, suspense, romance,
funny animal, children's stories, humor, super-hero, western, science-fiction,
and genres impossible to pigeonhole ("Spurs Jackson, Space Vigilante").
The main effect of the Comics Code was to allow the Goldwaters ("Archie") to
destroy EC Comics, which in turn transformed EC's Mad Magazine into one of the
most popular and influential humor magazines in American history.
Sexually explicit comics were available in the back of any men's magazine (in
the form of vest-pocket "Tijuana Bibles" featuring popular cartoon characters
engaging in explicit acts - no, Japan didn't invent this) and Matt Baker, among
others, was producing mature film-noir graphic novels that ignored the Comics
Code, in the 1950s. Dell Comics, publisher of Disney and other licensed
character comics, ignored the Code completely. The work of Carl Barks, arguably
one of the greatest cartoonists in the world, was never subject to the Comics
Code.
Barely a decade after the Code, underground cartoonists were producing
influential work that cheerfully flaunted the Comics Code and were sold in a
distribution network that ignored newsstands completely.
The popular conception is that the Comics Code destroyed creativity, artistic
endeavour, and the business side of the American comics industry. That
conception simply isn't true.
Personally I don't believe Tokyo's Harmful Books Legislation will have much of
an affect on the anime industry, which has vastly larger problems than
regulations prohibiting the sale of pornography to minors. Americans seem to
forget sometimes that nations not America may not share America's national ethos
of "freedom of the press". At any rate, the citizens of Tokyo are the ones who
should be deciding what is and is not sold to minors in their city.
This isn't the first time comics in Japan have been under fire from moral
watchdogs, either; since manga rose to prominence in the 1950s, Japanese
educators, PTAs, and watchdog groups have condemned, banned, legislated against,
and burned offensive manga. And yet today the R18 Doujinshi floors of shops in
Ikebukuro, Akihabara and elsewhere are jam packed with smut that violates the
laws of God, man, copyright, and physics. I predict this current effort will
have about as much effect as previous efforts.
That's what I said on the Animecons ML and that's pretty much still what I think.
Not that this had any business on a mailing list for anime cons, but the tragedy of the Comics Code and the Wertham witch hunt was, in my opinion, that Bill Gaines was forced to stand up holding the bloody severed head cover and defend it as a children's comic. What he should have said, what the industry should have done at that time, was to say, "these comics AREN'T FOR CHILDREN." The Comics Code came into being under the assumption that comic books were meant for children. It wasn't the case then and it isn't the case now, but that's the assumption that gave the Comics Code its teeth. Which is why comparisons to Bill 156 are useless; Japan has a thriving industry in comics for adults.
As far as I can determine, this Bill 156 to revise the Tokyo Metropolitan Ordinance Regarding the Healthy Development of Youths is a bill that, well, here's what it says.
1) Tokyo city govt. will be able to suggest how minors have access to information through their cell phone based on the user’s age.
2) Tokyo’s definition of how it deems publicly available material as harmful to minors will be changed. The new definition has been expanded to include the "unjustified glorification or exaggeration" of fictional depiction of sexual acts currently unlawful. This doesn't BAN the material or make the material illegal, it restricts it to persons over 18.
3) Publishers that have over 6 works deemed to be harmful material within a one year period by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government shall be subject to referral to their respective self-regulatory bodies for addressing the repeated offenses.
4) The bill allows the Tokyo Metropolitan Government to encourages the establishment of an environment where child pornography could be eliminated and prevent its creation.
5) Tokyo Metropolitan Government’s role in promoting and formulating Internet media literacy policies are confirmed.
6) To prevent harm that could arise from minor’s access to the Internet, filtering must be made more easily available and they must become more effective.
7) If a parental guardian wishes to deactivate a minor’s cell phone’s Internet filtering, they must submit a written request to their cell phone service provider where they recognize that it will be the parental guardian’s responsibility to make sure the minor’s Internet access is properly supervised AND that the reason for deactivation is recognized as being justifiable by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government.
8) Parental guardians must properly supervise and administer Internet usage by minors in their care to prevent dangerous usage patterns that might involve criminal activities, etc. and strive toward limiting minor’s exposure to information that may result in criminal activities or become victims to the minimum possible.
(this is all lifted pretty much verbatim from Dan Kanemitsu's blog.)
And yeah, that's it. Cell phone restrictions for minors, internet filtering for minors and the horrifying nightmare censorship where the sale of adult material is restricted to adults. Oh, and the definition of what constitutes kiddy pRon is vague and subjective - which has been the status quo pretty much everywhere, for a long time. OH NOES
I can't see this having any affect whatsoever on anything, other than the boners of minors who have to work a little harder to get their crazy Japanese pRon. Perhaps retailers will have to check IDs. OH THE HORROR. I predict the death of the anime industry forever, starting... now. No wait, now. Hold on... now! Wait for it...
But - and this has happened twice that I've seen so far - when somebody tries to equate this bill with the American Comics Code, and then makes the case that the Comics Code destroyed American comics for decades until magically Frank Miller invented "The Dark Knight" and made comics OK for adults again (or whatever artistic benchmark you care to use for the adultification of American comic books), well I have to speak up.
The Comics Code of the 1950s didn't have nearly as much to do with the implosion
of the American comics industry as did an economic downturn that eliminated
several distributors in 1957-1958. Before AND after the Comics Code, the
American comic book industry featured crime, war, horror, suspense, romance,
funny animal, children's stories, humor, super-hero, western, science-fiction,
and genres impossible to pigeonhole ("Spurs Jackson, Space Vigilante").
The main effect of the Comics Code was to allow the Goldwaters ("Archie") to
destroy EC Comics, which in turn transformed EC's Mad Magazine into one of the
most popular and influential humor magazines in American history.
Sexually explicit comics were available in the back of any men's magazine (in
the form of vest-pocket "Tijuana Bibles" featuring popular cartoon characters
engaging in explicit acts - no, Japan didn't invent this) and Matt Baker, among
others, was producing mature film-noir graphic novels that ignored the Comics
Code, in the 1950s. Dell Comics, publisher of Disney and other licensed
character comics, ignored the Code completely. The work of Carl Barks, arguably
one of the greatest cartoonists in the world, was never subject to the Comics
Code.
Barely a decade after the Code, underground cartoonists were producing
influential work that cheerfully flaunted the Comics Code and were sold in a
distribution network that ignored newsstands completely.
The popular conception is that the Comics Code destroyed creativity, artistic
endeavour, and the business side of the American comics industry. That
conception simply isn't true.
Personally I don't believe Tokyo's Harmful Books Legislation will have much of
an affect on the anime industry, which has vastly larger problems than
regulations prohibiting the sale of pornography to minors. Americans seem to
forget sometimes that nations not America may not share America's national ethos
of "freedom of the press". At any rate, the citizens of Tokyo are the ones who
should be deciding what is and is not sold to minors in their city.
This isn't the first time comics in Japan have been under fire from moral
watchdogs, either; since manga rose to prominence in the 1950s, Japanese
educators, PTAs, and watchdog groups have condemned, banned, legislated against,
and burned offensive manga. And yet today the R18 Doujinshi floors of shops in
Ikebukuro, Akihabara and elsewhere are jam packed with smut that violates the
laws of God, man, copyright, and physics. I predict this current effort will
have about as much effect as previous efforts.
That's what I said on the Animecons ML and that's pretty much still what I think.
Not that this had any business on a mailing list for anime cons, but the tragedy of the Comics Code and the Wertham witch hunt was, in my opinion, that Bill Gaines was forced to stand up holding the bloody severed head cover and defend it as a children's comic. What he should have said, what the industry should have done at that time, was to say, "these comics AREN'T FOR CHILDREN." The Comics Code came into being under the assumption that comic books were meant for children. It wasn't the case then and it isn't the case now, but that's the assumption that gave the Comics Code its teeth. Which is why comparisons to Bill 156 are useless; Japan has a thriving industry in comics for adults.
As far as I can determine, this Bill 156 to revise the Tokyo Metropolitan Ordinance Regarding the Healthy Development of Youths is a bill that, well, here's what it says.
1) Tokyo city govt. will be able to suggest how minors have access to information through their cell phone based on the user’s age.
2) Tokyo’s definition of how it deems publicly available material as harmful to minors will be changed. The new definition has been expanded to include the "unjustified glorification or exaggeration" of fictional depiction of sexual acts currently unlawful. This doesn't BAN the material or make the material illegal, it restricts it to persons over 18.
3) Publishers that have over 6 works deemed to be harmful material within a one year period by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government shall be subject to referral to their respective self-regulatory bodies for addressing the repeated offenses.
4) The bill allows the Tokyo Metropolitan Government to encourages the establishment of an environment where child pornography could be eliminated and prevent its creation.
5) Tokyo Metropolitan Government’s role in promoting and formulating Internet media literacy policies are confirmed.
6) To prevent harm that could arise from minor’s access to the Internet, filtering must be made more easily available and they must become more effective.
7) If a parental guardian wishes to deactivate a minor’s cell phone’s Internet filtering, they must submit a written request to their cell phone service provider where they recognize that it will be the parental guardian’s responsibility to make sure the minor’s Internet access is properly supervised AND that the reason for deactivation is recognized as being justifiable by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government.
8) Parental guardians must properly supervise and administer Internet usage by minors in their care to prevent dangerous usage patterns that might involve criminal activities, etc. and strive toward limiting minor’s exposure to information that may result in criminal activities or become victims to the minimum possible.
(this is all lifted pretty much verbatim from Dan Kanemitsu's blog.)
And yeah, that's it. Cell phone restrictions for minors, internet filtering for minors and the horrifying nightmare censorship where the sale of adult material is restricted to adults. Oh, and the definition of what constitutes kiddy pRon is vague and subjective - which has been the status quo pretty much everywhere, for a long time. OH NOES
I can't see this having any affect whatsoever on anything, other than the boners of minors who have to work a little harder to get their crazy Japanese pRon. Perhaps retailers will have to check IDs. OH THE HORROR. I predict the death of the anime industry forever, starting... now. No wait, now. Hold on... now! Wait for it...
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 07:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 07:16 pm (UTC)What I see mostly is the AmeriOtaku (tm) getting all butthurt because if the teenies in Japan can't buy the MOE crap to post on the internetswebtube, they're going to be cut off from their free "It's NOT PORN REALLY I JUST FEEL PROTECTIVE AND CARING!!! *fapfapfap*" stuff.
Kinda like the Meth users got all butthurt when various cold and allergy meds went behind the counter.
Or so it seems to me
no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 08:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 08:13 pm (UTC)Now, who are they, what are they, and how do we identify them? I'm not clear on that part, and it's kind of important.
-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 08:36 pm (UTC)I mean:
"You might be an AmeriOtaku(tm) if you spend more than 15 minutes in the manga section at B&N or Borders reading all the latest titles but not buying a single one. ever."
"Even more likely if you complain that a specific volume was supposed to be released and it's not on the shelf for you to read in the store"
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 01:36 am (UTC)-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 02:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 02:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 04:06 am (UTC)Were we acting in an illegal manner by copying videotapes of copyrighted material? Yes we were. I do think the vast majority of us had the DESIRE to purchase said material, but very few were able to pony up the monies, even when the (by Japanese standards) cheaper LD box (cheaper than VHS and the complete series of whatever as opposed to compilation tapes or 'best of' collections) set releases started to flood the world. Of course we did support our favorite shows in other ways- the buying of LPs, toys, models, and booooooks. We also communicated, shared our info and mis-information and otherwise made friends and all that crap. We glommed on to just about any show because everything was new even if it was old.
The AmeriOtaku(tm) does little of this. Contrary to what Dave infers, it's not an age thing, it's a mindset to wit: "All that stuff is out on the internet for free why should I pay for that hell that Giant Robo box set is $15 WTf I'm not gonna pay $15" (OMG when I think how much money I shelled out for Giant Robo, one god blasted LD at a time, the two year wait for Episode 7...).
Mind, the AmeriOtaku(tm) does shell out money sometimes, usually for pervy PVC statues and hug pillows.
"but so what? It's all disposable entertainment anyway. It's probably stupid to keep stuff" Maybe so, maybe we cling too much to the 'idol fetish' aspect of our hobby. We worship the false gods of DVD,CD, Book, Toy and Plamo. Me, I LIKE having physical things that remind me of shows I like, things that don't require a computer, a broadband connection, wi-fi or even electricity. OK, OK, gotta have the ol' Edison Spark for listening to CDs. Fine, caught me.
Speaking up a reply, Tim, I can't give you a simple soundbite for what an AmeriOtaku(tm) is. Like I said, it's a mindset. An Entitlement mentality with a super narrow focus, like those guys who were always looking for 'the next Akira' combined with an actual phobia against spending money on the product itself. *Generally* speaking there's also a focus on MOE and Yaoi, to the complete exclusion of anything else. God help you trying to get them to watch a show made pre-2000. And again, it's a mindset not an age thing, just that the kiddies are much more visible (and clogging the aisle at Borders).
Now, I gotta take a nap. Get off my lawn! :)
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 04:40 pm (UTC)On the other hand, you've complained enough about the Borders situation that I'm guessing you've personally witnessed it (as have I). Lack of spending money probably plays a role, but reading is a much better use of one's time than loitering or thuggery. Wouldn't you want to encourage it?
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 05:47 pm (UTC)And sometimes we were right, the Red Lion shouldn't have been charging $15 if you wanted to hook up a VCR to your room TV at AnimeCon. But for the most part, a lot of energy and time was wasted complaining, energy and time that could have been put to better use, he said 20 years after the fact.
When I see young fans today displaying bad behavior, obviously I have to counter it when possible (from the stage at AWA's closing ceremonies, etc) but at the same time it's with the understanding that I was once an annoying teenage fan myself, who felt I knew it all and that the world owed me a livin'.
As always, when bitchin' about something, it's best to keep the complaints to specific behavior at specific times and use those examples to highlight real life situations, rather than a vague general handwaving about "you know, them". I find a lot of times my preconcieved notions don't hold up when I try to quantify them.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 07:08 pm (UTC)They also often don't put the books back, which means more work for the employees. Yes, many of these things can also be attributed to many who shop at B&N and Borders, but it's more general, more spread out over a day, over a week. And those other customers generally do buy SOMETHING, even if they leave a mess of books on a table.
Technically, if you have a group sprawled on the floor reading that IS loitering.
I really don't know what exactly you mean by evidence based, Tim. Isn't the great crash of the anime market evidence enough? Good lord, there was something recently where Funimation (I think, might have been Bandai) had to do a recall on a DVD box set and they let slip that it affected all 500-some sets.
500 DVD sets. Of a title that supposedly was a high demand fan fave. We're at a point where it seems trying to hit the 1000 mark in a release is an uphill struggle. Of course, as I've said other places, there's not only the "I'm not gonna pay!" entitlement mentality at work, there's the issue of there's no place one CAN buy this stuff in a store anymore for all practical purposes.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 07:30 pm (UTC)Those other things you describe are important, but surely the blame for all that lies at the feet of the importers, not the consumers. If someone didn't have the resources to get beyond a tiny niche market, they were in the wrong business. And if there simply ISN'T a bigger market, well, I have a tough time blaming the kids for that.
-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 08:51 pm (UTC)(and the college kids who come in to use a store as a library, with the backpacks and the computer and the coffee bought elsewhere...man.)
We all know the anime industry killed itself with shortsighted behaviour in an attempt to cater to an increasingly narrow and unwilling to buy phantom customer.
Hey, had that moment. I think I have my soundbite for the AmeriOtaku(tm)/
"The AmeriOtaku(tm) has no interest or respect for the past and no thought for the future. They live in a perpetual state of 'now' where instant gratification isn't fast enough. They are often completely detached from the very concept of actions having consequences and express anger and confusion when told, in some manner, 'no'. "
And I say again, it's not an age thing, it's a mindset. I'm sure all of us can think of someone our own age that has those traits.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 10:46 pm (UTC)This is where the evidence-based part comes in, so generalizing isn't acceptable. Your definition is valid only if it actually exists outside your imagination.
-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 12:38 am (UTC)randomly citing: ANN forums, Anime on DVD forums, all of 4chan, the AWA forums and on and on.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 02:37 am (UTC)But you just fell into the generalization trap. Citing and dismissing entire forums by name is meaningless. 4chan consists of NOTHING BUT your "AmeriOtaku?" Impossible. Lots of the yakking I see in other online comment lists is basically just bad behavior, but I can't bring myself to drop them all into a single bucket no matter how much they piss me off. Like I said before, a certain amount of asshattery is a given. If that's all you're really talking about, then it doesn't call for its own special terminology.
-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 06:18 am (UTC)But it's not my job to convince anyone to agree with me. Agree, disagree, it's always up to the individual to choose. If you choose to view behaviour as detached from a particular mindset and dismiss it as just asshattedness, even when you see examples of that same behaviour across various demographics, well, then that's what you choose to see. And that's fine by me.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 08:12 am (UTC)-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 06:22 pm (UTC)But it's not my job to convince anyone to agree with me. Um, actually this is why you are commenting here, you're defending your statements, which is part of convincing people your point of view is correct. If you aren't at least making a good faith effort to defend your point of view, what are you doing wasting your time with all this keyboard work? The carpal tunnel can't get here fast enough for you?
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 08:09 pm (UTC)-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 08:46 pm (UTC)You really have forgotten all those posts all over the place about people complaining about fansubs being pulled because a show has been licensed? The complaints because a fansub project isn't coming out fast enough? The complaints from people when Crunchyroll went legit and weren't hosting fansubs anymore? How about all those people who rant at AoDVD and ANN because a new licensed title is sub only and if it's not dubbed, no sale, they already have the fansubs (and THAT is a very very odd mindset)? Grief, I think there was even some of that in the corners at Anime Jump.
And the ultimate proof is the state of the anime industry, I would think. But, to be fair, my rants on how everyone seems to forget that the loss of well over 4000 physical stores since 2006 (and the few remaining cutting way back on their buys) to BUY the stuff being a factor does come into play.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-02 09:07 pm (UTC)-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-03 03:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-03 06:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-04 07:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 02:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 09:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 09:48 pm (UTC)"But how is this going to affect Comiket?" Um, I dunno, maybe your quadruple-penetration Kiki's Delivery Service doujinshi will have to be sold with larger black boxes on the cover. And you might have to check the IDs of the super creepy peeps who are buying it from you. OH THE HUMANITY.
no subject
Date: 2010-12-31 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 10:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 02:05 pm (UTC)Been reading recent Comiket coverage. Oh, I so do not miss those crowds.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 02:17 am (UTC)Certainly a case of something good that came from that.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 08:43 pm (UTC)Granted, EC might have run themselves into the ground on their own, but I have to imagine that we'd be farther along in our cultural perception of comics.
-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 03:36 pm (UTC)We all look at this from an Americentric point of view, and it can be endlessly debated on how we're all this or that, but Japan, even in these corrupted times, is still ruled by 'face' and relationships.
Before, all this stuff was a secret shame even as it was very public. Now, there's official codification from the Government, the very heart of old Edo, saying "this is very bad and you are dirty, dirty people" and brother, that's going to carry some weight.
It may turn out to be a major game-changer after all.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 04:27 pm (UTC)All this displays to me is how hyper-aware we've all become thanks to the increased visibility of Japanese media. Sort'a like how OCD has been around forever, but seemed to take a jump when we found a trendy term for it.
-Tim E.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 06:50 pm (UTC)What I was trying to get to with the above was the difference between the cultural norm of Japan and the U.S. Sure, porn (no need to narrowcast, really.) is frowned upon and again, goes into that land of "if it's not discussed/acknowledged it doesn't exist" that is part of the Japanese mindset. This new law shoves the Imperial Crest in the face of everyone and it WILL have consequences. Is that good or bad? I have no idea. I think it depends greatly on what other laws or measures come up to modify or define or alter or expand this thing.
The big question will be the first arrest for violating the law, either at the retailer or consumer level. I'm assuming the Police didn't crash the latest Comic Market and start busting heads and grabbing dojinshi and garage kits.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-01 07:19 pm (UTC)Anyway, I'm OK with what I've read, 'cuz Japan is now approaching the point where "gross national cool" simply gets shortened to "gross."
-Tim E.