adventures into the unknown

[davemerrill]

So we went aimlessly driving around yesterday. Went to a record store in Oakville that we'd passed previously but had never gone into. First indication something's going on is the one wall full of cassettes. One wall, full of cassettes. Some were in those lockable security things. You remember when you went into The Record Bar or Turtles in 1985 to buy that new "cassingle" from, I dunno, Richard Marx or Arcadia or somebody, and it was in this plastic frame the cashier had to unlock? Yeah. So there were a lot of cassettes. There were a lot of CDs also in those security things. There were a lot of LPs. The little sign said they were consignment LPs and that the prices were set by the vendor. Okay, sure. What made it outstanding was that the prices weren't a little high. The prices were a LOT high. The prices had been smoking weed all week long, they were that high. Seriously, $20 for Genesis LPs. $30 for Black Oak Arkansas (!!) LPs. $30 for Black Sabbath LPs. Just garden variety buy 'em anywhere LPs, but in Oakville you can tack a zero onto the regular price. Okay, so let's check the used vinyl in the basement. Let's see what the actual store owner thinks vinyl is worth. Will it get cheaper?

Hah! You know those K-Tel AS SEEN ON TV compilations? You know how in every thrift store on Earth they are one or two dollars? Not here. Six dollars, ten dollars, twenty dollars. Carpenters LPs for $20- but it's still sealed! Yes, there's a reason it's still sealed. Nana Mouskouri Christmas LPs for $20. Def Leppard's PRYOMANIA - an LP that is still freely available in Goodwills across the nation for a buck- bargain priced here in Oakville at $14.99. We wandered through the basement, laughing at prices. And then we left.

I realize this is Oakville, which is a pricey suburb that prides itself on being classy. And I realize rent is probably at a premium. But I also realize that the pool of prospective customers willing to shell out outrageous prices for bad vinyl; well, it can't be large. This is a shop that's stuffed to the gills with albums, CDs, and cassettes (!!) still at their popular prices of eight or nine bucks each. Probably a fire trap. Owner should start slashing prices, moving some inventory. Not that he's going to have a lot of luck selling K-Tel compilations or Carpenters LPs at any price, but the stuff needs to move. Probably save his life.

Actually there was a dealer at Anime North selling new vinyl at premium prices. I suppose you can TRY to get $30 for LPs at an anime convention. No, not vintage anime vinyl, just re-issues of typical classic rock staples. Because that's what anime fans want, to spend $30 on Pink Floyd albums they can't listen to.

Speaking of outrageous prices, a few weeks ago we dropped into a Queen West boutique that had pop culture junk in the basement - books, records, toys, what have you. Nothing too amazing, but downstairs there was a box of books and magazines. I found two Japanese womens magazines from the 1960s. Mostly text but there were some cool old ads. No visible price so I took 'em up to the register. Dude wanted ten dollars each. Now if I hadn't seen entire shops full of vintage Japanese magazines in Kanda for a fifth of the price last summer, I might have bought one of them. But I guess I'm spoiled. I countered with a buck each. Dude looked apologetic, but did not counter-offer. I think they're still there along with their overpriced hipster nostalgia LPs and "ironic" t-shirts, if anybody's got ten bucks to drop on old magazines they can't read.

Crazy Grandma Price Guide fever - it's catching!!

Comments

[dave-iii.livejournal.com]

Some days I dream of teaching an economics class, and the first lesson plan involves basic principles, like "Scarcity creates Value" and that putting the highest number possible on the price tag does not mean that eventually someone will pay that amount.

[tochiro998.livejournal.com]

Actually. my mom would probably be all over those cassettes, but even those prices would make her say no. Couple bucks, she'd buy a stack but $8 and up? no, no.

When I worked at J&R's Music Shop (part of the Orange Records chain) we had to keep the cassingles in security cases because they were a high theft item. Seriously.

I recall stopping at a record store in Chicago back in '82, theft was such an issue EVERYTHING that wasn't a LP was behind plexiglass. 3 walls, including the counter, were behind bulletproof plastic. If you wanted a cassette you reached your hand thru a hole in the plastic, dropped the item down onto a conveyor belt on the floor where it was motored up to the checkout.

... Yeah. At that moment I started to question my personal safety. :)

[tochiro998.livejournal.com]

See, the problem is, the HOPE that someone will be either so clueless or so desperate for the item they'll get that price, and it completely justifies the foolishness.

the other problem, what rules the antique and comic book market, is the FEAR that if they 'underprice' the item you, the consumer, are STEALING from them because you'll go right on eBay and make a MINT, money that THEY should properly have. This thinking of course reflects their own life as they haunt estate sales and 'amateur' sellers at flea markets and yard sales for sweet, sweet merchandise. Buy low, sell high.

Nobody understands that inventory is an alligator slowly eating at your profit and the way you make money is by turning the stock.

[beelzebozo.livejournal.com]

Consignments can bring in the funniest pricing. I've had people trying to sell at MSRP or higher for items. I let them do it, but warn them the I cannot guarantee it would sell. And then they get pissed when it goes months and years on the shelf. No skin off by back since they only take up space.

[davemerrill.livejournal.com]

I remember seeing plexi bins with the holes, too. I bet retailers don't miss cassettes AT ALL.

[davemerrill.livejournal.com]

They probably already have this, but there should be a computer program that calculates how much you're paying every day in rental for every item in your inventory. That's been sitting on the shelf for a year? It's cost you XXX so far.

Merchandise has to MOVE, people. Merchandise that does not move is COSTING YOU MONEY.

But yeah, the times I've bought stuff and had the seller tell me that I was probably going to take it home and sell it on eBay has been too many to count. I guess it never occurs to these people to try it themselves.

[davemerrill.livejournal.com]

You should work up a little handout, a basic economics primer combined with something about knowing your market, or something. I see people selling stuff at the AWA flea market or the AN Nominoichi, trying to sell stuff for way more than it's worth. Usually their price structure lasts about forty five minutes and then they start marking stuff down, because they see everybody else in the room selling similar stuff for half the price, making money hand over fist.

[dave-iii.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's about right... I never heard the alligator metaphor but it's an excellent description. Everyone wants the million dollar Action Comics #1, but that only works because it's really old and rare... 99.5% of the original run were either thrown away (the original intent-- it's just a comic book, fer cryin' out pete), disintegrated (Cheap paper + (time and the elements) = brightly colored soil) or recycled (Let's everyone contribute to the war effort!). Any that survived are special because by some miracle they survived... It's going to be at LEAST fifty years before someone even pretends to think the same way about Trollops of the Death Dimension #4.

Economic lesson number 43: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If you can make a sale with a fair profit for you and a happy customer, then by thunder, do it. Hoping for that One Big Sale later down the line (or fearing being cheated because the customer got the One Big Sale and you didn't) won't, forgive the apparent redundancy of the term, profit you. If you get the Big Sale, great. If they get the Big Sale, well, lesson learned. Move on.

Let's look at the LP's as an example... first off, who even HAS a working record player anymore? Yeah, they sell combo units fairly freely, but not many folks under 30 are gonna bother.... most of 'em probably don't even know what an LP even IS. So, That's a limited market there. Reduce it even further by people who actively seek to buy MORE LPs... No one's making them anymore, why bother? Reduce it again by the number of people who don't own these specific LPs... because, honestly, why else WOULD you buy them? Now, we can bump that number back up slightly by including people who actively LIKE Genesis/The Carpenters/K-Tel Compilations/etc., and people who'd buy them for other reasons (kitsch value, art projects, a 70's/80's theme at Prom, etc.) but let's be honest.... you're left with a painfully small number. Odds are poor that anyone in that demographic is going to find the million dollar Black Sabbath LP in YOUR collection, anyway.

There's other things to consider, as well... Dave walked away from this store with no purchases, and is unlikely to ever return. If the prices had been good, he might have come back, even if he hadn't found anything the first time, just in case. No sale today, maybe sale tomorrow is better than no sale, not ever. You and I are unlikely to go to this store, based on Dave's description. That's at least three not-sales right there. There's no 100% system that works all the time, obviously, but you see where I'm heading.

[dave-iii.livejournal.com]

The smart stores I go to DO sell stuff on eBay. Sometimes they buy stuff out of the catalogs for the express purpose of selling it on eBay.

[dave-iii.livejournal.com]

I'm glad they stopped putting stuff in those insane plastic frames that were supposed to make the item to awkward to simply drop into your pocket or something. Nowadays folks download it off the internet, FAR less hassle than trying to walk out of the stores with it.

[dave-iii.livejournal.com]

See, now, that how that works. That's the trouble with the records guy: Not enough competition to keep his feet on the ground.

[tochiro998.livejournal.com]

I think you missed the memo, vinyl LPs are the in, hipster thing now. It's so RETRO!

Lots of bands are releasing new stuff on limited edition vinyl. I think some bands are even starting to notice that all that space on the jacket makes for really cool art...

Which is so funny because some of the bands doing this are also known for their strident eco-freak beliefs. So, money wins. :)

(see, big cardboard jacket = OMG dead trees you VILLAIN! MOTHER EARTH HATES YOU and of course you gotta have that evil, EVIL oil to make the LP...)

[ferricide.livejournal.com]

yeah, this true, and i think it's also causing an upswing in demand for used vinyl by good bands, but that still doesn't mean people are willing to pay stupid prices for it (or for crap/extremely popular but-not-cool stuff) since it's ubiquitous used. there are some things which go for a lot, but, guess what, anybody who's looking for them knows what they are.

[davemerrill.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling this particular Oakville record store has been in business a long time and has a little world he's built up around himself, and he's not really cognizant of the larger fields in the record-selling business.

It's weird, you see one record store on Queen West with stupid prices and another five blocks west with pretty good prices. A store on the outer fringes of the downtown will have high prices and a lousy selection, while one two hours away in London Ontario will be the exact opposite, having a lot of great stuff and decent prices. You never know what you're going to find, which is why I love going into those places.

Hell, that place in Peterborough I was expecting to have stupid prices, they were selling LPs by the pound.

Dave, the college kids are nuts for vinyl. In Cambridge last Feb I literally could not get to the LPs because of the college kids shopping. Urban Outfitters is doing a brisk business in two or three styles of USB-equipped turntables. And most new vinyl releases come with free digital downloads so you can have your LP for classy at home listening and your MP3 for your tinny little earbuds.

Steve, cardboard is paper, which is a renewable resource. Plastic for CD jewel cases and CDs, not so much. LP vinyl is frequently from repurposed sources, hey, it's black, can hide a lot of visual flaws - but CD cases gotta be clear.

[(Anonymous)]

This would seem to be a universal phenom. I've been visiting Yahoo.jp auctions pretty much every day for the last four yeas, and I'm STILL seeing stuff that's been there since I started. Almost every day I throw the question out into the ether, "why did you put the damn thing online if you don't want to sell it???"

If I were running an online auction site, my policy would be that if your thing doesn't sell after two weeks, you cut your price by 10%. Ditto every two weeks thereafter until you either sell it or pull it. After four-plus years of no movement, you're either colossally ignorant or just plain crazy grandma.

-Tim Eldred

[(Anonymous)]

PS from Tim: Just remembered a crazy grandma moment from my own past.

I was probably a pre-teen, my family went to auctions and flea markets all over the place on weekends. Used comics were almost always there. I remember pawing through someone's comic box, don't really remember what was in there or what it cost, but I distinctly remember a crazy grandma telling me. "Those are Marvel Comics. You know they don't make Marvel comics anymore."

I was an avid Marvelite at the time, so this was news to me.

[ferricide.livejournal.com]

what amuses me is that urban sells LPs and LP frames right next to each other -- it's hilarious, and fun to turn your nose up at it, but it's also smart. one of my roommates in my last place was a 24 year old. he had 5 framed LPs on his wall, a mix of vintage (e.g. jimi) and new stuff (e.g. grizzly bear) ... and no record player.

[tochiro998.livejournal.com]

But MAKING paper is evil, and uses chemicals, CHEMICALS!!! and cutting down trees is a crime against Gaia, and think of the birds!

But making paper out of hemp is OK, maaaaaan.

I'm just pointing out some logic flaws, that's all. :)

Used media store near where mom scores her smokes had a stack of Bill Cosby LPs for like 50 cents or a buck each. It took a HELL of a lot of willpower to not buy those, mainly as I don't have a working turntable at the moment. There was also some stuff that I think would have been Found Sounds material but nothing totally 'out there' came into view so I let it all sit.

[davemerrill.livejournal.com]

Do you actually KNOW any hippies who think making paper is evil, or are you just exaggerating for comedic purposes? Even the greenest, smelliest hippy is OK with paper; nobody is cutting down spotted owl old growth for the paper mills, all the source material comes from tree farms or recycled sources. The big hippy complaint would be the bleaching the mills do because nobody wants funky looking paper with weird spots in it.

Our customers will insist upon the most recycled of the recycled paper, and then they'll stand there and complain about the flecks and the spots. Dude, it's 100 Enviro paper, the spots are right there in the paper. We don't charge extra for those.

You can get as green as you like with the printing industry, from 100% recycled paper right on through to the soy inks.

[tochiro998.livejournal.com]

Generally, from the counter-culture types I run into, yes, the protest has shifted from 'paper is bad' to 'paper is OK, those evil chemicals have to be stopped!!'

(recall, it was the eco-freaks who caused grocery stores to shift from paper bags to plastic. THEN the bitch was plastic doesn't decay. Well, duh.)

Yet everyone wants the super glossy coated stock, and soy inks are disliked because they run and smear (see local newspapers).

Dave, maybe you know. Why can't paper be made from grass clippings? I assume it's because of the massive chemicals that would be needed to bleach the green.

[davemerrill.livejournal.com]

So you don't actually know any hippies who think cutting down trees is an affront to Gaia, or who think making paper is evil, then. I was going to say you need to start finding a better class of hippy to hang with.

All kinds of ink are different and you can get soy inks that outperform traditional inks in just about every metric you can name. Most of what we run here - even the super glossy coated stock - has some percentage of recycled content. You can get 100% recycled glossy stuff if you like.

You could probably make paper with lawn grass clippings, but the time, energy, and resources needed to make it into anything close to usable would render it not worth the effort. And of course there isn't anything as fake or as artificial as a green suburban lawn; let it go back to nature, man! Weeds and bushes!

So any old time you want to admit that people who care about the environment are not hypocritical for purchasing LPs, that'll be fine. I'm here all day.